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欧洲幽门螺杆菌治疗共识 5

After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

After first line treatment, various "second line" treatments can be used. The policy for H.pylori is: Make sure the infection is real (breath test for follow-up). Always give a high dose of PPI (acid blocker) when using amoxicillin. In the second treatment, give a different drug in place of clarithromycin.

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After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by patient01 »

** originally sent to jblanchard as email from Lina K in Egypt **
I had four treatments and since then I finally have less symptoms. My doctor still detected H.pylori from a stool sample. Does this mean I still have it - or not? If I do have it, how can it be treated? I have been treated with amoxicillin, raifabutin, tetracycline metronidazole and even cipro.
Thanks :(

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by barjammar »

Hi there Lina K. Jim Asked me to answer this one.
Firstly, it is most likely that a stool antibody test was done - (it is very difficult to culture Hp from stool). But if the stool test is positive then the germs are still in your stomach. Breath tests are a bit more accurate if you really need to know.
This seems to be a question about resistant helicobacter so I have moved it to treatment.
If you feel Ok then it is not REALLY urgent to treat it at present.
Take a break then start up when you are ready and new treatments are available. At this stage a culture and sensitivity test would be my choice to direct therapy; so you would need an endoscopy. Then a strong treatment based on high dose acid blocker (pantoprazole 20mg t.i.d) with amoxicillin 1G t.i.d. plus furazolidone 100mg 3 or 4 times daily might be an option. Talk to your doctor and maybe see a specialist who focusses on Helicobacter - this is not a rare situation. Also, side effects of treatment are common as less well known drugs are used.
There is an article about treatment on-line which you can find here: which might help. If you needed to come to Australia and have treatment here it would cost about $3000 for everything. We can help find an expert in Egypt for you I am sure.
Barry Marshall 8-)
Check the link below for information on hard-to-treat cases. Then search the forums for questions and answers similar to yours.

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by bump101 »

try colloidal silver

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by doelmel »

At baseline and on day 35 after the completion
of triple eradication therapy, all patients underwent endoscopy
with histologic examination, rapid urease test and culture, urea
breath test, and a stool antigen test. The stool antigen test was
also performed on days 3, 7, 15, 21, 28, and 35 after completion
of therapy.

Btw long-term use of silver preparations can lead to argyria, a condition in which silver salts deposit in the skin, eyes, and internal organs, and the skin turns ashen-gray. Many cases of argyria occurred during the pre-antibiotic era when silver was a common ingredient in nosedrops.

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by sickofmeds »

My Story....I apologize for posting it here...I have only been on since today and am not familiar where I should have posted this:

I am a 47 - year old female. Born and raised in Hornepayne Ontario. Have three children.

I have been tested positive AGAIN with H Pylori and am on treatment. My first diagnosis was in July 2008 after I came home from my mom's.

My father died in December 2007, was being treated for prostrate among other things, but BELIEVE after this weekends research that this is what killed him as when I last saw him in November of 07 he was complaining of stomach and gastro, pain and severe heartburn. My dad was a very strong, hard working Italian Man who should have lived to be 100 or more, he worked in his garden everyday and let bumblebees land on the palm of his hands as they were his BEST friends pollinating his garden.

When I went home to visit mother in March of 08, I cleaned her house from top to bottom including an area in the basement where black mould was all over the floor and wall due to water coming into the basement. The town was also implementing a water treatment centre. I don’t know what may have caused this and would like to find out, but I do remember how severely ill I was when I returned home after that trip.

The symptoms I had were:
Severe weight loss – 30 pounds
Extreme fatigue
Gas Pain

After several months of testing and probing, I was diagnosed positive with H.Pylori.

The first treatment I had was with one anti-biotic, which I believe was the yellow tablet that had the most DIGUSTING side affects and after-taste. It seems like so long ago I don’t know if I finished it completely and did not adhere to taking it with good solid food.
I then went for this $80.00 breath test and it was negative, but the blood work showed positive. I was told that H. Pylori will remain positive in your blood work forever once you have it. IS THIS TRUE?

3 Years passed and I seemed fine but the odd time I would still vomit to the point of bile.

Since early May, I again started losing weight, and was vomiting to the pint of bringing up bile once or twice a day. I again was feeling fatigue and no motivation to do anything. I am a very active person and can work 60 – 80 hours a week on work and volunteer tasks but since May have not had the drive to do so. I only work my 30-35 hours a week.

I went to the doctor on July 18th, 2011 and on July 27th my tests confirmed positive with H. Pylori once again. This time, I was put on 4 medications:

2 -Teva - Amoxicillin -500mg - 2 times a day
2 - Apo - clarithromycin - 25- mg -2 times a day
1 - Metrocidazole - 500 mg -2 times a day
1 - Teva-Lansorprazolie - 30mg -2 times a day

My symptoms and side-effects of Treatment as follows:
* Note: I am being very diligent in taking my meds with solid foods, avoiding acidic foods.
Day 1: Fatigue, sever stomach cramps and the worst taste in my mouth ever – waking up with a gawd awful taste in my mouth. Stools were like rabbit droppings (sorry to mention this but think this is key role in the treatment)
Breakfast: Oatmeal and a can of fruit cocktail – the fruit cocktail seemed to sit well.
Supper: boiled and fried endive with Italian bread.

Day 2: Fatigue, continued stomach pain and cramping, waking up to sever aftertaste, stool was incredibly green/black. I had 4 movements, each one getting looser.
Breakfast: Oatmeal, can of Fruit cocktail
Supper: Boiled beat tops, salad with lettuce and celery, olive oil, eaten with Italian Bread.
* Note: Took all the strength I had to CONTINUE treatment did not want to stop, the desire to get this out of my system was greater than the gross side effects.

Day 3: moderate stomach cramps, moderate aftertaste but find that if I don’t take the meds with the right mix of food, it is worse.
I have increased energy, was able to get off the couch, clean house a little and do laundry. My stools are still very green/black some (I feel hopeful that this waste is getting rid of what I have).
Breakfast: Oatmeal, can of fruit cocktail.
Supper: Green beans simmered with potatoes and a small cut-up tomato (they say tomatoes should be avoided but this is what the dish calls for so I avoided eating the tomatoes when done cooking). I also had a salad with celery and olive oil and Italian bread.

Day 4: mild stomach pain, mild – moderate aftertaste. Stools: VERY scary today, very loose, very green/black – have had 5 movements since waking. Caution: DO NOT PASS GAS (you will feel like you need to and can safely but DON’T, it will not be pretty. I did not take the chance to find out.

Breakfast: Oatmeal, can of fruit cocktail.

This is it so far…I have 3 more dreadful days to go. Am thankful that it is a 3-day holiday weekend and not have had to go through this while working.

IF ANYONE has ANY answers to my questions, I will be forever grateful.

1. Is this contagious – will my new love of my life get this. My doctor told me it was not.
2. Is there a link to mould and H.Pylori?
3. Is there a link to bad water and H.Pylori?
4. Has it been confirmed that it runs in the family and is genetic?
5. Is there any truth to the Food Diet Posted Below?
6. Should my 3 children be tested?

Thank-you for allowing me to share my story, looking forward to responses.

Below – Research for Food Intake – Good – Bad – Is there any truth to this?

Alkaline Vegetables
Beetroot greens
Barley grass
Brussel sprouts
Collard greens
Green beans
Mustard greens
Bok Choy
Pak Choy
Silver beet
Sweet potato
Wild greens
Wheatgrass Alkaline Fruits
Fresh coconut
Honeydew melon
Tropical fruits

Alkaline proteins
Cottage cheese
Chicken breast
Whey protein powder
Pumpkin seed
Flax seed
Sunflower seed
Squash seed
Chestnuts Other alkaline formers
Banchi tea
Ginseng tea
Herbal tea
Green tea
Alkaline water
Mineral water
Organic milk
Fresh fruit and vegetable juice
Green juice
Probiotic cultures
Apple cider vinegar
Bee pollen
Lecithin granules
Oriental vegetables
Dandelion root
Wakame seaweed 

Alkaline Herbs And Spices
Curry powder
All herbs
Sea salt

Acidic Foods List
Acidic Foods
Wheat cakes
Rice cakes
Hemp seed flour
Black beans
Green peas
Kidney beans
Lima beans
White beans
Almond milk
Cashew nuts
Pecan nuts
Tinned fruits
Oats and wheat’s
Soda drinks
Rices - All
Chick peas
Soy beans and milk
Rice milk
Acidic Dairy Foods
Ice Cream

Acidic Animal Foods
Other Acidic Items

Soft drink

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by Helico_expert »

I shall try answering your questions and if I did not answer your question, please do ask again.

1. Is this contagious – will my new love of my life get this. My doctor told me it was not.
H. pylori is difficult to transmit via mouth and sharing food. However, long term being so close (kissing, sharing food and water) to somebody does increase chance of passing the bug to your close one.

2. Is there a link to mould and H.Pylori?
there is no link between mould and H. pylori. they are different species organism with very different habitat. Mould prefer moist and H. pylori prefer stomach where it is so acidic that nothing else can grow.

3. Is there a link to bad water and H.Pylori?
I am not sure what you meant by bad water. however, there is evidence that H. pylori can survive in water for up to 4 days. Also, people in a village who share the same contaminated well, get infected too.

4. Has it been confirmed that it runs in the family and is genetic?
again, I am not sure of this question. H. pylori is like Flu. they are pathogen from outside the body. so it cannot be inherited from your parents or ancestors. However, H. pylori usually get pass down from mother to children. Because mother spent so much time and being so close to their children at their young age.

5. Is there any truth to the Food Diet Posted Below?
Sorry, I cannot answer you anything about the food as I am not expert in diet. However, I dont believe the food has any effect on H. pylori. the stomach is pH 1, very acidic. hence, doesnt matter what kind of alkaline food you are taking, i believe they are not able to neutralize it. it'll have to be so alkaline that it becomes toxic to you to neutralize the acid in your stomach. Lots of spice like garlic, chilli, tree oil, etc has been shown in the lab to inhibit H. pylori growth. However, the people in India, China and South East Asia who eat a lot of these spice, still suffer the most infectious rate of 70-90%. Therefore, I believe food has very little effect on H. pylori.

for other diseases, such as gout. Nuts and high uric acid food (eg. liver) should be avoided.
tofu and alkaline food should not be taken together. because tofu calcified with alkaline and form stone.
alcohol and antibiotic should not be taken together.
sorry for my little knowledge in food.

6. Should my 3 children be tested?
H. pylori is a very chronic infection. half of the world population is infected and only about 10% of them suffer from disease. There is also study from New York saying children with H. pylori are less likely to get asthma. There are also studies saying H. pylori may be beneficial to certain population. In conclusion, you can have your children checked but for treatment wise, unless they suffer from stomach diseases, or else they can wait until they are older.

Additional information.
vomit can pass H. pylori very effectively. so if your children is positive and they vomit, you have to be very careful not to get infected by cleaning your hands thoroughly.

it has been proven that hygiene is the best way of reducing the risk of H. pylori infection.

you should get breath test done again 3 months after your treatment to confirm the eradication. reinfection is very hard. usually is because the treatment reduced the bacterial load to so low that it cannot be detected. but after 3 months time, they grow back and resistant to previous antibiotics. your first treatment is the best example.

Blood test is not accurate after treatment. you will stay positive from blood test for at least 6-12 months. It is not forever positive from blood test.

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by sickofmeds »

Thank-YOU kindly for your responses.....

I guess my biggest fear is that if not treated properly it will turn into cancer which I believe caused my father's cancer.

Day 5 of treatment is the best yet, 2 days to more pains in the stomach, stools are starting to solidify but are still very dark green.

My kids are refusing to get blood work done and they have lost wight and complain of tums and Zanantac tabs....IS there ANY other way to detect it other than blood and the $80.00 breath test?

The saddest thing you wrote was that "garlic" could have an adverse affect...I LOVE Garlic...can I still eat it in moderation without the fear of it coming back...(I am very paranoid about what I eat now).

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by Helico_expert »

Correction. I said garlic can inhibit (or stop) H. pylori growth. Nothing bad about garlic. I love garlic myself. Absolutely yummy in Asian soup.

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by sickofmeds »

I stand corrected.....

AMEN!!!! and yesssssss!!!!!! I can continue my garlic cravings. A VERY good recipe then if I can share with you is this:

Boil till tender - Green Beans - don't overcook
Drain and let cool completely
Drizzle with olive oil
sprinkle salt
red vine vinegar - (but after reading that it is too acidity - I will eliminate or use just a drop or two)
cut up garlic cloves - I use about 4 or 5
then sprinkle with dried peppermint leaves

Eat with Italian Bread...yummy!

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Re: After Four Treatments H.pylori still detected in Stool

Post by HPgirl »

Sickofmeds, I'm so sorry to hear of your ordeal. I have had resistant h pylori myself and just finished a 5th round of treatment. I would suggest doing the urea breath test 4-5 weeks after treatment to ensure it is gone. If it shows up again, and I certainly hope it doesn't, you should definitely have those closest to you (including your kids) tested as they could be re-infecting you somehow. This is what I've been told. My son and husband were tested and it's a simple blood test. I'm in Ontario too. Here it can take up to 6 weeks to get the result of that blood test. I really hope that this treatment does it for you! All the best.

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