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Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

There are several types of tests for H.pylori. The major ones have a their own forum.

Moderators: Toni, barjammar

Seriphan
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:02 am

Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by Seriphan »

Hello!

I'm new here and I've been suffering with what I believe is an H Pylori infection in my stomach now since March 17th of this year. It's changed my life for the worst and I feel like I'm coming close to finding out what is going on and eradicating this thing once and for all. I've been to the ER about 3 times with this issues over the past 4 months.

My symptoms are:

- Constant Burping
- Upper Left Abdominal Pain
- Early Satiety
- Bad anxiety
- Loss of Appetite
- Weight loss (I lost 30 pounds)
- Heart palpitations

So on March 17th I suddenly woke up with a real bad pain in my upper left stomach with absolutely ZERO appetite. My fiancee at the time just got over a stomach bug and I thought that that's what it was so I just rode it out. 3 weeks into riding out this "stomach bug" I knew something was wrong so I reached out to my doctor and he said it sounded like I had gastritis but they could not do an endoscopy due to the corona virus issues and that I would have to wait. I asked them for a h pylori stool antigen test and they gave me the prescription. I did the test and the results were negative. But I just knew that I had to have something like h pylori because my gastritis was still active and going strong even with me eating a perfect diet and avoiding all acid type foods.

I did all other tests like Ultrasound, CAT Scan, Bloodwork, STD tests and all came back normal and fine.

I decided to take matters into my own hands and order a full comprehensive test called a GI-MAP by Diagnostic Solutions. I did the test and the results for H Pylori came up but they weren't marked high, but there is still H Pylori there.

Here are my H pylori results
H Pylori GI-Map Results
H Pylori GI-Map Results
Would you say that I'm H Pylori positive even though the GI-MAP doesn't mark the H Pylori as "high"? I feel like the answer is yes but I keep second guessing myself and I just want to get rid of this once and for all. My primary doctor believes it's positive but I feel like he doesn't really know how to read a test like this. I've NEVER been sick like this in my entire life especially not for this long and I want to get rid of this and just put this dark time in my life behind me at this point.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 3797
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by Helico_expert »

a few members have asked about GI-MAP before. Unfortunately it is not a recommended diagnostic test for H. pylori. They screen for the presence of Helicobacter DNA. I am not sure how specific their testing is. They may pick up some other Helicobacter closely related species DNA. Hence, the low quantity probably due to the "mis matching".

Stool antigen test is meant to be accurate. However, it can fail if you have low bacteria load. Breath test would be the alternative, but then again, will rely on high bacterial load.

So, I would recommend you to wait for two-four weeks, repeat stool or breath test. and this time, try to get the laboratory to give you an exact test value. Not just +ve or -ve. I think it's important to know how negative is negative. for example, if the cut-off value is 50, and your result was 49. then the negative result is very suspicious. If your result was 1 (or any value below 10), then I think it's a strong negative and is trustworthy.

noonanas
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by noonanas »

Hey ironically I just made an account today on here and saw your post! I have a similar story to you, my value is even lower than you though on the GI map test around 1.0e2 I believe. My symptoms have been severe though for last 2.5 months and I am still waiting for an endoscopy. I got IgG blood test which shows negative, and I asked for a breath test but my dr. said most labs aren't doing it now with covid, so I have the referral but haven't gotten it also because i've been on a herbal protocol for 47 days now with my naturopath based on the GI map results. I tried quadruple therapy with tetracycline, metro., PPI and Bismuth but only lasted 1.5 days... i got violently ill and threw up all night, then it took me 3 days to recover from that. My symptoms started with stabbing stomach pain one night, after a couple months of burping/hiccuping more often. The same time as this attack I had severe acid reflux, and burps were stuck in my throat + felt like I couldn't breath. I had to jump up and down to get them out and they would be immediately stuck again, it was really scary. These attacks have come and gone since this began, although slowly lowered in frequency and intensity. I also have upper right flank pain that travels around to my back, weird mini inhaled burps with stomach gurgles all the way into my chest, chest pressure/pain, anxiety, racing heart, reflux, and burping all day. I saw a chinese medicine dr. last night who gave me a simple tea to drink and if my endoscopy comes back positive hes going to make me a stronger herbal mix. I am open to trying other combinations of antibiotics again if need be, but I know there are many recurrences of h pylori and many treatment failures so I want to be really specific with my testing + not just blindly treat, especially since I have a history of antibiotic use. I'm in some natural treatment and other recommendation groups on fbook, with SOME good advice, but a lot of misinformation too. I've met people who have naturally eradicated it with natural protocols, and then i've met others who haven't and have been trying for YEARS. The same goes for antibiotics, so I'm not sure what's the right next steps. I know I'll need to be off my herbs for 2 weeks before endoscopy, I just hope that comes ASAP. I was trying to message you privately but can't figure out how to, if you want to send your e-mail etc and we can connect I'd like that too. Are you on any treatment currently/ what's your plan?

Ash

Seriphan
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:02 am

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by Seriphan »

Hey Ash!

I’m actually taking Matula Herbal formula for the HP right now and I’ve been taking it for a week. I’m have very subtle but positive changes but it’s hard to tell since it’s so early into treatment.

I’d love to chat! I sent you a friend request, hopefully we can message each other that way and if not I’ll give you my email.

Seriphan
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:02 am

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by Seriphan »

Helico_expert wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:57 pm
a few members have asked about GI-MAP before. Unfortunately it is not a recommended diagnostic test for H. pylori. They screen for the presence of Helicobacter DNA. I am not sure how specific their testing is. They may pick up some other Helicobacter closely related species DNA. Hence, the low quantity probably due to the "mis matching".

Stool antigen test is meant to be accurate. However, it can fail if you have low bacteria load. Breath test would be the alternative, but then again, will rely on high bacterial load.

So, I would recommend you to wait for two-four weeks, repeat stool or breath test. and this time, try to get the laboratory to give you an exact test value. Not just +ve or -ve. I think it's important to know how negative is negative. for example, if the cut-off value is 50, and your result was 49. then the negative result is very suspicious. If your result was 1 (or any value below 10), then I think it's a strong negative and is trustworthy.

I have an endoscopy in a week but it’s not going to be accurate since I’m on probiotics and an herbal tea for h pylori. I honestly don’t want to go though testing again because I did that back in May and didn’t take any supplementation and got incredibly sick and couldn’t eat anything but bananas and avocados. I just don’t want to stop taking these supplements because it’s not worth it going through that torture again just to find or not find that there is H Pylori there when I did a GI-Map test that is supposedly very accurate in picking up H Pylori.

noonanas
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by noonanas »

Hey! I requested you too, I'm not sure how to do it.
email me: ashleynoonan13@hotmail.com :)

I know people who have been successful with matula tea, but there is more success when combined with a few other supplements at the same time in a comprehensive protocol. I am waiting for endoscopy to be scheduled and continuing on my mastic gum + a million other supplements in the mean time... I am waiting for chinese medicine man herbal supplements after the endoscopy results (i'll probably do a breath test at the same time/around that time to get more insight). I was thinking of ordering matula tea and taking it immediately after antibiotics as well, if I need to go down the antibiotic route (and i'll be asking for a different combination of medications with less side effects and a high percentage of success). My gi map #s were so low I can't believe how debilitating this has been... also the anxiety obsessing about it is horrible.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 3797
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by Helico_expert »

replying to Ash,

Blood test is usually very accurate for negative result. So you probably dont have H. pylori and your symptoms are cause by something else.


replying to Seriphan,

Endoscopy tell us more than just presence or absence of H. pylori.
probiotics and herbal tea wont affect the detection of H. pylori.
Remember to ask your doctor for histology test, and if necessary, get a specific HP immuno stain.

noonanas
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by noonanas »

Helico_expert wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:18 am
replying to Ash,

Blood test is usually very accurate for negative result. So you probably dont have H. pylori and your symptoms are cause by something else.


replying to Seriphan,

Endoscopy tell us more than just presence or absence of H. pylori.
probiotics and herbal tea wont affect the detection of H. pylori.
Remember to ask your doctor for histology test, and if necessary, get a specific HP immuno stain.
Thank you for this amazing page and your time helping people. I am a researcher and health-blogger, prior to this experience, in women's health and hormones! I might be completing my naturopathic degree as well. I know igG is very accurate usually but can't it miss recent infections because the body hasn't responded to fight back yet? I looked at the studies on the ranges for titres, mine result was .21 which was .1 higher than the most confident "NO infection category." It said anything below .70 indicated no infection. My GI map was a low number positive with no virulence factors present and they said it was too low to check the antibiotic resistance (the gi map also includes that, which is amazing). Have you looked into PCR stool testing? Many studies show it's basically as sensitive as endoscopy so I'm curious about your opinion/if you've researched/ how there could be false positives???

I do think I 100% had/have ulcers because of how significant the symptoms were when this began. Some have slowly improved, like the stabbing stomach pain (I couldn't even sit up straight because it was so uncomfortable and it also made burping so much worse). I'd say my main symptom right now is acid reflux/burping/chest bubbling feeling, whereas a couple months ago it was also combined with that stabbing pain, chest pain, more intense reflux, abdominal tenderness to touch, upper right back/under shoulder blade sharp pain and daily nausea/exhaustion. I'm on a significant protocol, day 50, including mastic gum, nigella sativa, neem oil, olive leaf extract, oil of oregano (previously), cats claw, NAC, monolaurin, cabbage juice, l-glutamine, activated charcoal, easy to digest foods/ cut out most processed things other than a vegan protein bar), broccoli sprout extract, l.reteuri probitiocs and sach. boulardi probitiocs. For one month I also took a combo. supplement called Py-Plex (mastic gum, slippery elm, marshmallow root, licorice root). I might try matula tea combined with another supplement next, or a chinese medicine herbal protocol. I have met many people who have eradicated it naturally, but also I've met many who tried for so long and couldn''t. It seems there's success stories with both natural or antibiotic routes, as well as non-successful stories. Here's a couple other questions I have.
1: as I wait for endoscopy to be booked, how long should I be off my herbal antimicrobials? I'm thinking 2 weeks? I'm not taking a PPI at all.
2: have you seen GERD be a common issue that lasts post-eradication?
3: If I do end up needing antibiotics based on future tests (I will complete a breath test and stool antigen test later on as well to re-check) but I have a history of antibiotic use in past: flagyl, levofloxacin for a UTI, etc in childhood which type of protocol should I ask for? I tried bismuth quad therapy as started above but it was 500mg of flagyl and 500 mg tetracycline. 4 times a day, that's a crazy high amount and no wonder I was so ill and only lasted 1.5 days. I want to ask for antibiotic susceptibility testing if they do find it on endoscopy but I'm not sure they'll agree to that since this is my first testing. I'm not sure if I'm allergic to amoxicillin because I remember throwing up one antibiotic when I had strep throat but my childhood doctor doesn't have this on file. I was debating asking for high dose dual-therapy (amox. and PPI if I'm not allergic), levofloxacin triple (but i'm worried since I was exposed to this in the past) + adding in bismuth which helps with resistance, etc. Do you have any other recommendations since flagyl made me so deathly ill??

Thank you again.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 3797
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by Helico_expert »

you are right about recent infection may not detect IgG. But that's just a theory. In fact, most people catch H. pylori when they are young. Children as young as 2 years old is already infected with H. pylori. It's harder for adults to catch H. pylori because most adults are aware of basic hygiene and brushes teeth at least once a day. We have met so many couples, who were married for decades, never infect their partner. We believe it is because they look after their oral hygiene well. A simple brushing teeth in the morning can reduce the chance of transmission significantly.

So, if your blood test is negative, it is most likely that you are free of H. pylori.

PCR, like GI MAP, is not a recommended test as they can be over sensitive. In the laboratory, I can almost tweak the PCR experiment condition to change any negative to positive result. The false positive rate of DNA testing is too high.

However, 50% of the stomach ulcer is caused by H. pylori, another half is caused by NSAIDs (eg. ibuprofen, aspirin, etc). Some people take NSAIDs to prevent stroke. So make sure you are not taking any of these NSAIDs.

Natural therapy does work for some people. But I am confident to claim that natural therapy only works for a very small group of people. Almost everyone in this forum who tried the natural recipe reported not working. Antibiotic treatment is the only efficient way to eradicate H. pylori.

2 weeks without any herbs, PPI or antibiotics should be good enough for H. pylori diagnosis. either via breath test or endoscopy.

It is quite common for patients to develop GERD after H. pylori eradication. With proper control by PPI, usually the GERD symptom can gradually recover. Unfortunately, it can take quite a while, may be years, before the GERD goes away. Also, depending on the severity of the damage done by H. pylori, some damage can be permanent. That's why we suggest patients to get rid of H. pylori before they have the symptoms. But it's hard to convince people to go through treatment without symptoms. Asymptomatic patients are not very motivated.

If you do end up carrying H. pylori and need antibiotic treatment, then you will have to avoid antibiotics that you have used before except amoxicillin and bismuth. H. pylori almost never resistant to these two drugs. They can be used repetitively.

Talk to your gastroenterologist about the choice of antibiotics. He is responsible for your overall well-being.

noonanas
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Re: Am I positive for H Pylori? GI-MAP Results

Post by noonanas »

Thank you so much for getting back to me. I did read PCR can cause false positives but so many people with so many symptoms who only get positive on PCR stool testing try to treat either naturally or with antibiotics so I haven’t been sure what to believe, especially since my symptoms all match h pylori 100%.

I used those other antibiotics for previous infections like UTI, so you’d recommend not trying them at all without susceptibility testing then? Due to the belief that most of us acquire h pylori in childhood if we have it? I will ask my GI for sure about other combinations with amox. And PPI but I don’t see many high success rate studies other than rifabutin possibly?

They called me and booked me for a last minute cancellation endoscopy and colonoscopy on Tuesday, I didn’t want to say no since I’ve been waiting 3 months and they originally said the earliest I’d get is September. Do you Think it’s ok/worth it if I stop herbs etc today to follow through with that appointment?

Again, thank you so much.

Ash

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