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Antibody test

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AMERC
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:23 am

Antibody test

Post by AMERC »

Hi

I was diagnosed with H Pylori in Oct 2020 after an endoscopy. I did the triple therapy treatment and since then in the last 18 months I have tested 3 times negative on stool test and once negative in Urea Breath Test (done in July 22). I made sure that before each test I was off PPI for 14 days.

However I still have episodes of silent acid reflux. The main symptoms being Globus sensation and dull to sharp stabbing pain in the epigastric region. I have to take Dexilant 30 mg for a few days to calm it down.

Last week I did a blood test for H pylori antibodies and it was surprising also NEGATIVE. It has only been just under 2 years since I was diagnosed with H Pylori and I had though that the anti bodies stay in the blood for years. This makes me now doubt if the original biopsy result from the endoscopy in 2020 was correct. HelicoExpert please could you kindly advise if this it is possible for the antibodies to disappear from the blood so soon?

Also has the H pylori infection made my stomach very sensitive to certain food or stress which is giving me episodes of acidity related pain and discomfort. Note I hardly get heartburns. How do I manage this espisodes.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by Helico_expert »

Hi Amerc,

Yea, the antibody's "shelf-live" is depending on individual's immunity. For some people, it only takes 3 months for the antibody for H. pylori to deplete. It can take up to 3-5 years too. There is no study on average, how long will the antibody last so far.

It's a bit like COVID19. Some people can have very long lasting antibody while some people's antibody drop to zero after 3 months.

Anyway, it is common to have persistent symptoms even after H. pylori eradication. In general, it's harder to heal if you are over 50 years old. As the damage could have already formed scars, that are permanent. Nevertheless, there are studies that suggest that through time, some stubborn symptoms can still gradually recover.

AMERC
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:23 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by AMERC »

Thanks

Being on PPI or Famotidine would not have affected the antibodies test right?

AMERC
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:23 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by AMERC »

I am 48 years old was 46 when I was diagnosed with H Pylori.

I can go for weeks sometimes even a couple of months without any major acidity issues but then suddenly due to something I ate or stress it will trigger acid reflux. Starts with globus sensation and then increasing to pain in thr epigastric region. Note the endoscopy in Oct 2020 (when they found h pylori) they did not find any inflammation or structural issues so they diagnosed me with functional dyspepsia.

But for me all this issues started after h pylori diagnosis

Could it havr made my stomach very sensitive to even small amounts of extra acid or has my LES become weak

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by Helico_expert »

PPI and H2 blockers do not have impact on antibody testing.

I believe it is true that some patients' stomach may feel more sensitive after HP eradication.
Perhaps it's due to the sudden change of condition, the stomach is trying to adapt to a HP free condition.
or perhaps it's due to the retreat of the inflammation cells, the stomach lining is no longer crowded by the stressful immune cells.

photon
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:11 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by photon »

AMERC wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:56 pm
Hi

I was diagnosed with H Pylori in Oct 2020 after an endoscopy. I did the triple therapy treatment and since then in the last 18 months I have tested 3 times negative on stool test and once negative in Urea Breath Test (done in July 22). I made sure that before each test I was off PPI for 14 days.

However I still have episodes of silent acid reflux. The main symptoms being Globus sensation and dull to sharp stabbing pain in the epigastric region. I have to take Dexilant 30 mg for a few days to calm it down.

Last week I did a blood test for H pylori antibodies and it was surprising also NEGATIVE. It has only been just under 2 years since I was diagnosed with H Pylori and I had though that the anti bodies stay in the blood for years. This makes me now doubt if the original biopsy result from the endoscopy in 2020 was correct. HelicoExpert please could you kindly advise if this it is possible for the antibodies to disappear from the blood so soon?

Also has the H pylori infection made my stomach very sensitive to certain food or stress which is giving me episodes of acidity related pain and discomfort. Note I hardly get heartburns. How do I manage this espisodes.
Wait, you are saying you had h pylori in 2020 and you still had no inflammation? That is very very suspicious.

My igG is always negative I got other posts to prove it but my igM test or igA doesn't change when I have an infection and it stays constant throughout the infection no matter how many months or years pass by. I am a rare case I dont think there are igGs in my body or my body just doesnt know how to produce igGs for h pylori....it may be the same case for you. I suggest you take all three blood tests, if all three are negative, I would say there is zero chance you have h pylori.


Keep that in mind!

Now Assuming you are h pylori free, you CAN cure your functional dyspecia. My reflux was so bad i had ulcers DAILY which made me puke blood for YEARS that means my LES was EXTREMELY WEAK both the LES and UES were weak yet when I cleared off h pylori all things went back to normal I could even digest lactose in huge amounts ( I remember stopping the car bc I saw a farmer selling raw milk...bought a bucket and drank it all up with no issues lol). I also had tequila alcohol all kinds of crazy things and no reflux.

Now...here's what you need to do to get back into shape. Note I am not a doctor but i think in these cases of 'functional dyspesia' most doctors are clueless and the best advice you're going to get are from patients who have tried tons of things (thats how I know a lot about fuctional dyspepsia).

1. Inflammation due to sensitivies

There's a chance that there's inflammation around the LES (if it isn't present in the stomach) which may be called by food sensitivities, you may have antibodies to some foods and as long as you keep eating those foods those antibodies and sensitivies will not dissapear. The solution is to stop eating those foods..how do you find out? There are some tests but the best method is to do an elimination diet start with the basics: rice, potatoes, chicken...do that for three days and see if you have no symptoms...if it doesn't work replace potatoes with other vegetables...try for it three days..then watch your symptoms...does it get better? If it does...then you've got three safe foods and you need to start adding more condiments and foods to it until you find your triggers.

Usual triggers in order of inmune reaction strength: gluten, lactose, soy, nuts, eggs, red meat, chicken, fish, rice, vegetables (how I know this list, I've spent years on forums talking to people with autoinmune digestive diseases).

2. Lack of enzymes


It is possible you have permanently lost the enzymes to digest some foods, this is usually temporary with inflammation. For example, when you have a cold you usually stick to soup and bland foods bc ur body loses some of the enzymes to digest food. When food stays too long in the stomach it weakens the les or it even may trigger it to malfunction just like food sensitivy does. You need to follow the same method to find out. For me...in my SECOND h pylori reinfection, I lose the maltose enzyme which is present in nearly every carbohydrate and hence why I had so much reflux from nearly every dish I ate. I had 0 enzymes for maltose because the reflux bouts when I ate rice for example where HUGE, I would instantly get a bleeding throat from eating cookies or rice.

3 SIBO.

Overgrowth of good or bad bacteria is also an issue because it generates gas and weakens the les, also by products generated by this bacteria may trigger the lES to malfunction. I dont want to get into details here you may want to look it up online and some solutions too. ABX is usually a last resort, I would just starve the bacteria.

4. Permanently weakened LES.

I feel this is very very rare, I would say long standing inflammation for about 15-20 years would cause this. My LES/UES were so weak but they still recovered completely. If you do have a weakened les there are some foods you have to avoid, you should do the research and Im sure you have also found out the hard way. Usual triggers: spices , oils and too much water after eating or too much food in one meal. Vitamin D in high dosages has shown to improve les strenght on some papers as well as melatonin. Again this is very rare but possible. This is much much more common when there is something causing inflammation but you say you dont have h pylori so....


Lastly....

5 Weak Gall Bladder

H pylori does not cause the gall bladder to weaken but in a stomach thats been compromised for so long, the inflammation can 'jump' into the gallbladder especially if you have a very agressive inmmune system. This does not mean you have gallstones, it just means your gallbladder is weak and is not pumping out enough bile acid to digest food, it may be due to food sensitivity or SIBO or something else like stones...(not all stones had pain). I had a weak gallbladder and some gallstones cause by long standing inflammation around the digestive system...it cleared up a year after eliminating my first h pylori infection in 2014. The following reinfections 2015...2016 and 2022 have not caused any gallbladder issue thereafter.

There are a few more reasons for functional dyspepsia but those are the most common.

The good news is that save for #4...all of these are reversible.

Good Luck!

AMERC
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:23 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by AMERC »

Hello Helico Expert

Here is my dilemma

Acidity Symptoms started in June 2020
Oct 2020 had endoscopy which showed H Pylori infection but no inflation
Had 2 triple treatment therapies each 7 days between Nov 2020 and Jan 2021
March 2021 - Stool Test for H Pylori was negative - no PPI for at least 14 days
May 2021 - 2nd Stool Test for H Pylori was negative - no PPI for at least 14 days
June 2021 - Jan 2022 - Symptoms under control and no major issue with acidity
Jan 2022 - Symptoms worsen because of work stress and relocation
Feb 2022 - 3rd Stool Test for H Pylori was negative - no PPI for at least 14 days
July 2022 - Urea breath test for H Pylori was negative - no PPI for at least 14 days
17 Sep 2022 - Helicobacter antibody test was also negative.
29 Sep 22 - Did another endoscopy to double check as symptoms will not away (was on PPI). Latest Histology report below:

GROSS APPEARANCES:
A. Gastric biopsies (x4). Four irregular fragments each 3 mm in
diameter (all embedded).

B. Oesophageal biopsies (x4). Four irregular fragments each 3 mm in
diameter (all embedded).

MICROSCOPY:

A. Sections show body-type gastric mucosa and antral-type gastric
mucosa. In antral mucosa there is a mild chronic gastritis associated
with occasional Helicobacter pylori organisms over the surface.
Elsewhere there is no abnormality.

B. Sections show oesophageal mucosa lined by stratified squamous
epithelium. There is no significant abnormality. There is no
oesophagitis and eosinophils are not seen.

CONCLUSION

Helicobacter pylori gastritis
Normal oesophageal mucosa

How is it possible that I still have H Pylori after all those negative tests.

Please can you explain. Can being on PPI give a false POSITIVE H Pylori result?

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by Helico_expert »

Yea, it's almost impossible to get false negative with so many independent tests. Especially when you have a negative serology.
You can probably ask the pathologist to revisit the histology slide and do a immuno stain to check if those bacteria seen on the cell surface are actually H. pylori.

If you are on PPI, then your stomach is no longer acidic. Then other bacteria may start to grow in the stomach. That may explain the false positive if
of H. pylori being seen in the histology.

AMERC
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:23 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by AMERC »

Thanks

But they have seen Chronic gastritis which is the reason I assume I have been having acidity related issues and hence I have been taking PPI.

Can this be the gastritis from 2020 H Pylori infection which hasn't fully healed? Can other bacteria cause same symptoms as H Pylori?

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Antibody test

Post by Helico_expert »

hmmm... gastritis was diagnosed by vision? or histology?
if it's by vision, it's probably some redness.. probably due to too much acid
if it's by histology, it's probably due to some local infection. Can get more info to see if it's active or non-active gastritis.

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